tech: automobiles!! - Page 3

jackson handy · 06-06-2007, 05:55 AM

Thanks Mandi this is a great thread. If I may I will shoot two opinion questions towards you.

1) My wife has a 1999 Pontiac Grand Am with the dreaded 2.4L 4 in it. Surprisingly enough the intake gasket has started to go bad and coolant loss is ongoing. This is early on in the process and new coolant is added every couple of weeks to the resivoir. My wife loves the car and doesn't really want another one (or payment for that matter) and would like to go ahead and fix it. I believe that even if we rebuilt from the bottom up using top quality gaskets and making everything right, that this engine is really not rebuild worthy since we would still be stuck with the same poorly designed engine. (I started a POS chant when I changed the waterpump) Worth it to rebuild or not? 75,000mi on the clock btw.

2) I have a 1986 and a 1987 VW Jetta both have the 1.8 Gas engine in it. The 87 is my daily with 175,000 mi and the 86 is a parts car that runs and drives (front ender that I bought back from insurance) with 230,000 on it. I had been toying with finding a diesel motor and doing the swap on the 86 even before the wreck and now that I have two should I go ahead and give it a go?

Just opinion questions sometimes I just need an outsiders perspective to help quiet the voices in my head.

Cheers and thanks again for this thread.

treesmoke · 06-06-2007, 06:31 AM

how about this i got a 2000 Pontiac Grand Prix 3.1 v6 SE. When it rains the passenger side floods. It is a design flaw, is there a cheap way of fixing it.

I also have a coolant leak, it the gasket at the top of the engine, i think it is the head gasket. I can see where it is coming apart from the out side in is there a way to fix this with out rebuilding the engine. would you suggest a laymen do such a thing? How much might this cost.

stevegmu · 06-06-2007, 06:40 AM

Most flooding in cars is due to clogged drain holes. It is supposed to be done with the major service intervals, but usually doesn't. A shop can spray out the drains with air, or run water through them. Probably a half hour of labor, or $75.

You can't fix a coolant leak for cheap. You can only delay the problem with stop leak, but that has problems of its own.

That car is only worth like $4000, so not really worth replacing the head gasket.

treesmoke · 06-06-2007, 07:05 AM

'I have a '98 Grand Prix that started leaking water to the passenger floorboard during severe rainstorms. This happened about a year ago. I took it to the dealer and they checked the A/C and found nothing plugged up. At the time the molding around the windshield on the passenger was loose. However, that didn't seem to be the cause either. They thought it might be a cowl leak and told me to take it an auto body/glass place. The auto body/glass place looked at it and said it wasn't a cowl leak but that it appeared a was missing near the vents for defrosting (underneath the wipers). When a hose was run over this portion of the car water would run in on the passenger side footrest. The body shop even demonstrated this for me with the carpet pulled up. They said I should go back to the dealer and ask about this apparent missing piece. Went back to the dealer and they said nothing was supposed to be there. They even showed me a new Grand Prix to compare to.

I ended up going back to the body shop and paying $300 for them to make something to run the water another way by the vents and I haven't had a problem since. Wasn't happy, but it was raining a couple of times a week and I was tired of bailing out my car."

This is a link to another forum.

i just found this thread this is a well known problem with my car. And it is not even worth $4000 i got 150,000 miles on it that said i have had no real major problems with that. Except for the head gasket but that is leaking to the outside of the engine, not into the oil yet, or their is little proof

stevegmu · 06-06-2007, 07:22 AM

The car has drain plugs at the sun roof and sides of doors. They get clogged from time to time, and need cleaned out. If you open the door, there should be a black rubber grommet on the side somewhere. It is bulbous, and you can stick the tip of your finger in it. If you do, and it comes out black, you probably have clogged drains.

The stop leak works, but so does putting eggs in the radiator. Both are short term fixes, although I have heard of cars running for years with stop leak in them. It'
s like $5 at Auto Zone.

treesmoke · 06-06-2007, 07:34 AM

Yeah i got some stop leak stuff. It is not the drain that you are talking about though cause i have seen where the water is coming in and i have clear that drain a dozen times. It is a little tiny river that start behind the glove department from what i remember.

mandi · 06-06-2007, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackson handy

Thanks Mandi this is a great thread. If I may I will shoot two opinion questions towards you.

1) My wife has a 1999 Pontiac Grand Am with the dreaded 2.4L 4 in it. Surprisingly enough the intake gasket has started to go bad and coolant loss is ongoing. This is early on in the process and new coolant is added every couple of weeks to the resivoir. My wife loves the car and doesn't really want another one (or payment for that matter) and would like to go ahead and fix it. I believe that even if we rebuilt from the bottom up using top quality gaskets and making everything right, that this engine is really not rebuild worthy since we would still be stuck with the same poorly designed engine. (I started a POS chant when I changed the waterpump) Worth it to rebuild or not? 75,000mi on the clock btw.

2) I have a 1986 and a 1987 VW Jetta both have the 1.8 Gas engine in it. The 87 is my daily with 175,000 mi and the 86 is a parts car that runs and drives (front ender that I bought back from insurance) with 230,000 on it. I had been toying with finding a diesel motor and doing the swap on the 86 even before the wreck and now that I have two should I go ahead and give it a go?

Just opinion questions sometimes I just need an outsiders perspective to help quiet the voices in my head.

Cheers and thanks again for this thread.

(1) are you sure it's the intake gasket leaking? not common on this engine! more probable the head gasket! if your capable of doing the water pump, you should be able to do the head gasket. the lower end of these engines are tough, and if it's been taken care of, it's worth fixing. if you do the head gasket, make sure to replace the head bolts! there torque to yeild bolts and are only good for one use (they stretch, when torqed down) also replace timing chain
(2) swapping a diesel in this car is going to require upgrading the cooling system also and swapping wiring harness from a diesel vehicle also, whole big bunch of work, and the trans is not a direct match also. no i wouldn't do it.

mandi · 06-06-2007, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treesmoke

how about this i got a 2000 Pontiac Grand Prix 3.1 v6 SE. When it rains the passenger side floods. It is a design flaw, is there a cheap way of fixing it.

I also have a coolant leak, it the gasket at the top of the engine, i think it is the head gasket. I can see where it is coming apart from the out side in is there a way to fix this with out rebuilding the engine. would you suggest a laymen do such a thing? How much might this cost.

[IMG]

[/IMG]

the coolant leak is from the lower intake manifold (very common on this engine! see pic)- the far passage in pic is for coolant, the gaskets are of a thermo plastic design & they crack. the problem with ignoring this, coolant also leaks internal & mixes with engine oil (antifreeze is not a lubricant for engine bearings & will destroy internals if not repaired! and no there is no cheap repair for this. the pic is of a customers car i'm doing right now.

mandi · 06-06-2007, 03:09 PM

your leak is the drain< but not the drain you think, there is a drain for the evaporator core(this is the thing that makes your air conditioning cold) in the dash-it can get rain water in it, ever notice water coming out under car on hot summer day after using a/c? yes there is a design flaw-in that the evaportor box is not sealed tight on these cars and rain water builds up inside, but if drain nipple is clogged it will come inside-climb under car, look up at firewall, towards passenger side,there is a ruuber 90 degree elbow coming out of the firewall. this is the drain. to unclog safely you need to blow compressed air into nipple. as far as intake manifold leak about $700.00 us (parts & labor)

mandi · 06-06-2007, 03:21 PM

your in luck, i have a pont grand prix here today, i'll take pic of evaporator drain & post it here later

treesmoke · 06-06-2007, 04:10 PM

Man thanks i feel like i should be paying you for this. Isnt there a test i can do to see if any coolant is getting into my oil. i can see were my gasket is broken and it is leaking outward, but as you said it can still be leaking into the oil.

Should i try and do this my self i know i need a torque reach and is this considered rebuilding an engine?

mandi · 06-06-2007, 04:19 PM

the only way i know of seeing if it's getting into the engine oil, is to run the engine hot & drain the engine oil while very hot, if there is visable steam as oil comes out of engine-theres antifreeze in it, also open oil cap, if theres this milky /tan goo inside valve cover -it's antifreeze/engine oil mixture

mandi · 06-06-2007, 04:21 PM

no i wouldn't try this myself if i were you, the lower intake manifold bolts have to be torqued to 22 inch lbs, and even with a torque wrench this is a job for a pro.

flatfish · 06-06-2007, 10:41 PM

Still taking questions, Mandi?
Don't want to clog up the thread with a lengthy post if not...thanks!

beowulf · 06-06-2007, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mandi

no i wouldn't try this myself if i were you, the lower intake manifold bolts have to be torqued to 22 inch lbs, and even with a torque wrench this is a job for a pro.

...when are you lot gonna go metric?.......kg/f or even Nm

actually i miss the old days of imperial..........and when i get my harley later in the year i guess i will have to go out and buy a new set of spanners and sockets since all mine are metric

06-06-2007, 05:55 AM	#31
jackson handy Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 163 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Mandi this is a great thread. If I may I will shoot two opinion questions towards you. 1) My wife has a 1999 Pontiac Grand Am with the dreaded 2.4L 4 in it. Surprisingly enough the intake gasket has started to go bad and coolant loss is ongoing. This is early on in the process and new coolant is added every couple of weeks to the resivoir. My wife loves the car and doesn't really want another one (or payment for that matter) and would like to go ahead and fix it. I believe that even if we rebuilt from the bottom up using top quality gaskets and making everything right, that this engine is really not rebuild worthy since we would still be stuck with the same poorly designed engine. (I started a POS chant when I changed the waterpump) Worth it to rebuild or not? 75,000mi on the clock btw. 2) I have a 1986 and a 1987 VW Jetta both have the 1.8 Gas engine in it. The 87 is my daily with 175,000 mi and the 86 is a parts car that runs and drives (front ender that I bought back from insurance) with 230,000 on it. I had been toying with finding a diesel motor and doing the swap on the 86 even before the wreck and now that I have two should I go ahead and give it a go? Just opinion questions sometimes I just need an outsiders perspective to help quiet the voices in my head. Cheers and thanks again for this thread. Last edited by jackson handy : 06-06-2007 at 05:58 AM.

06-06-2007, 06:31 AM	#32
treesmoke Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,587 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	how about this i got a 2000 Pontiac Grand Prix 3.1 v6 SE. When it rains the passenger side floods. It is a design flaw, is there a cheap way of fixing it. I also have a coolant leak, it the gasket at the top of the engine, i think it is the head gasket. I can see where it is coming apart from the out side in is there a way to fix this with out rebuilding the engine. would you suggest a laymen do such a thing? How much might this cost. __________________

06-06-2007, 07:05 AM	#34
treesmoke Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,587 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	'I have a '98 Grand Prix that started leaking water to the passenger floorboard during severe rainstorms. This happened about a year ago. I took it to the dealer and they checked the A/C and found nothing plugged up. At the time the molding around the windshield on the passenger was loose. However, that didn't seem to be the cause either. They thought it might be a cowl leak and told me to take it an auto body/glass place. The auto body/glass place looked at it and said it wasn't a cowl leak but that it appeared a was missing near the vents for defrosting (underneath the wipers). When a hose was run over this portion of the car water would run in on the passenger side footrest. The body shop even demonstrated this for me with the carpet pulled up. They said I should go back to the dealer and ask about this apparent missing piece. Went back to the dealer and they said nothing was supposed to be there. They even showed me a new Grand Prix to compare to. I ended up going back to the body shop and paying $300 for them to make something to run the water another way by the vents and I haven't had a problem since. Wasn't happy, but it was raining a couple of times a week and I was tired of bailing out my car." This is a link to another forum. i just found this thread this is a well known problem with my car. And it is not even worth $4000 i got 150,000 miles on it that said i have had no real major problems with that. Except for the head gasket but that is leaking to the outside of the engine, not into the oil yet, or their is little proof __________________

06-06-2007, 07:34 AM	#36
treesmoke Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,587 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Yeah i got some stop leak stuff. It is not the drain that you are talking about though cause i have seen where the water is coming in and i have clear that drain a dozen times. It is a little tiny river that start behind the glove department from what i remember. __________________

06-06-2007, 03:09 PM	#39
mandi Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 215 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	treesmoke: your leak is the drain< but not the drain you think, there is a drain for the evaporator core(this is the thing that makes your air conditioning cold) in the dash-it can get rain water in it, ever notice water coming out under car on hot summer day after using a/c? yes there is a design flaw-in that the evaportor box is not sealed tight on these cars and rain water builds up inside, but if drain nipple is clogged it will come inside-climb under car, look up at firewall, towards passenger side,there is a ruuber 90 degree elbow coming out of the firewall. this is the drain. to unclog safely you need to blow compressed air into nipple. as far as intake manifold leak about $700.00 us (parts & labor)

06-06-2007, 06:40 AM	#33
stevegmu Banned Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: A stone's throw from the White House. Posts: 7,411 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Most flooding in cars is due to clogged drain holes. It is supposed to be done with the major service intervals, but usually doesn't. A shop can spray out the drains with air, or run water through them. Probably a half hour of labor, or $75. You can't fix a coolant leak for cheap. You can only delay the problem with stop leak, but that has problems of its own. That car is only worth like $4000, so not really worth replacing the head gasket.

06-06-2007, 07:22 AM	#35
stevegmu Banned Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: A stone's throw from the White House. Posts: 7,411 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The car has drain plugs at the sun roof and sides of doors. They get clogged from time to time, and need cleaned out. If you open the door, there should be a black rubber grommet on the side somewhere. It is bulbous, and you can stick the tip of your finger in it. If you do, and it comes out black, you probably have clogged drains. The stop leak works, but so does putting eggs in the radiator. Both are short term fixes, although I have heard of cars running for years with stop leak in them. It' s like $5 at Auto Zone.

06-06-2007, 03:21 PM	#40
mandi Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 215 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	treesmoke: your in luck, i have a pont grand prix here today, i'll take pic of evaporator drain & post it here later

06-06-2007, 04:10 PM	#41
treesmoke Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,587 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Man thanks i feel like i should be paying you for this. Isnt there a test i can do to see if any coolant is getting into my oil. i can see were my gasket is broken and it is leaking outward, but as you said it can still be leaking into the oil. Should i try and do this my self i know i need a torque reach and is this considered rebuilding an engine? __________________

06-06-2007, 04:19 PM	#42
mandi Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 215 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	treesmoke: the only way i know of seeing if it's getting into the engine oil, is to run the engine hot & drain the engine oil while very hot, if there is visable steam as oil comes out of engine-theres antifreeze in it, also open oil cap, if theres this milky /tan goo inside valve cover -it's antifreeze/engine oil mixture

06-06-2007, 04:21 PM	#43
mandi Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 215 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	re:treesmoke no i wouldn't try this myself if i were you, the lower intake manifold bolts have to be torqued to 22 inch lbs, and even with a torque wrench this is a job for a pro.

06-06-2007, 10:41 PM	#44
flatfish Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 58 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Still taking questions, Mandi? Don't want to clog up the thread with a lengthy post if not...thanks!