World archives WW2 pics (large B/W)

[Harpoon]

Was the original dome glass?

[Meursault]

Yes, at least partly. Since the steel available back then (1880s) wasn't as robust as later mixtures, they couldn't build such an airy construction as Foster did for the new dome, so it looked a bit like a huge helmet with windows. Here's a coloured version of a historic postcard:

[Nemowork]

Originally Posted by Meursault

yeah, there are so many sites that remain largely unchanged. For instance, there's a manour on the Wannsee lake where representatives of all the relevant nazi authorities met late in 1942 in order to organize the extinction of jews, gypsies and a bunch of other minorities in an industrialized fashion.

I wouldnt say that, the death camps had been running for a while, so had the Einsatzgruppen it was more of an organisational event to formalise and rationalise all of the smaller systems already in action and figure out best practice.

Originally Posted by Meursault

It wasn't even set up as a death camp like Birkenau/Auschwitz and they still killed some 100,000 people in there until the end of the war. Ironically the russians liked what they saw and used it as a death camp for actual or alleged "fascists" and "counter-revolutionaries" for a few more years.

Another favourite was the Uranium mines in Czechoslovakia, at least in Oranienburg you could turn informer for better treatment or suffer your sentence and survive, in the Uranium mines your chances of surviving 6 months was about zero.
With the Soviets number 1 military priority being an atom bomb and the need to keep up numbers for production you could get sent there for prostitution , black marketeering even an offhand comment about the wrong official.

[Harpoon]

I liked the old dome better..

[Meursault]

Originally Posted by Nemowork

I wouldnt say that, the death camps had been running for a while, so had the Einsatzgruppen it was more of an organisational event to formalise and rationalise all of the smaller systems already in action and figure out best practice.

Exactly, the Wannsee conference is unique because it meant that they applied fairly modern management principles to the extinction of large parts of the population. Usually genocide is a somewhat spontaneous and anarchic business, see the Congo, Turkey, Cambodia etc.

[Nemowork]

Thats the thing though, starting from the suppression of the Boxers in China and then the deliberate Genocide of the Herero in Namibia and the reprisal actions in Belgium in WW1 i've always kind of figured the Nazi's as the final stage of the Kaiser generation. all they did was take already existing priciples in the Prussian state and run it to an insanely logical conclusion.

Check out the Herero repression and its astonishing how many names from the Nazi era and Hitler supporters were either in power or got their start there along with the promotion of the racial superiority theories.

[Meursault]

True, I think there was a gradual escalation of brutality and recklessness which culminated in the murder factories of Birkenau and Treblinka. The type of warfare that the generals ordered in WW1 is a good example for an intermediate step: Once they realized rapid mobile warfare got stuck at the Marne, they switched to chemical weapons and sort of a war of attrition, figuring that germany had more youths to spare than france and britain.

Gradually the people in charge became more cynical, brutal and ruthless.

Like many other historic developments, it had been in the works in many different places at the same time though. The nazis took things to a new level because they made genocide a profitable industry. Pretty mindblowing in a very negative way.

For me, there were two aspects that really marked me. For

[Nemowork]

Originally Posted by Meursault

True, I think there was a gradual escalation of brutality and recklessness which culminated in the murder factories of Birkenau and Treblinka. The type of warfare that the generals ordered in WW1 is a good example for an intermediate step: Once they realized rapid mobile warfare got stuck at the Marne, they switched to chemical weapons and sort of a war of attrition, figuring that germany had more youths to spare than france and britain.

I'm not sure i agree with that, the Germans knew they were outnumbered from the start even with the dubious help of the Austro-Hungarians and so on, thats why they went for the attack in Belgium in the first place to take out France quickly before Russian and French numbers could be mobilised against them, secure the west and then they could turn on Russia.

Verduns a classic case, they figured they could use a limited force to capture hugely symbolic areas of France and the French would bleed to death in counter-attacks on fortified positions.

The problem was that the German high comman might have been tactically quite efficient but they were disorganised and essentially incompetent.

The perfect example is the initial Belgian attack, the high command had taken out infantry formations to test advance speeds, needed resupply and rail support with perfect numerical precision and planned to minor detail from there.

What they hadnt bothered to think of was that the advancing formations wouldnt be trained and fit regulars but recalled reservists who were out of shape and walking long distances in new boots from the stores.

Then there was Belgian resistance,monor but spirited and the home guard joining in so the advance falls further behind and to speed it up junior officers decide to take reprisal actions against Belgian civilians to break the military and militias will, that creates a propaganda catastrophe that brings in Britain with a small but intensely professional force that shot the German mass formations of part-timers to pieces until both sides were exhausted and trench war started.

ie the first world war was largely lost because paper planners hadn't thought of blisters.

[Nemowork]

Back to the pics

One open field and a single tree, guess which he found

[Harpoon]

You know they never recovered Hitlers body? It was supposedly burnt by his SS soldiers after suicide.

[Mugzy]

Originally Posted by Nemowork

I'm not sure i agree with that, the Germans knew they were outnumbered from the start even with the dubious help of the Austro-Hungarians and so on, thats why they went for the attack in Belgium in the first place to take out France quickly before Russian and French numbers could be mobilised against them, secure the west and then they could turn on Russia.

Verduns a classic case, they figured they could use a limited force to capture hugely symbolic areas of France and the French would bleed to death in counter-attacks on fortified positions.

The problem was that the German high comman might have been tactically quite efficient but they were disorganised and essentially incompetent.

The perfect example is the initial Belgian attack, the high command had taken out infantry formations to test advance speeds, needed resupply and rail support with perfect numerical precision and planned to minor detail from there.

What they hadnt bothered to think of was that the advancing formations wouldnt be trained and fit regulars but recalled reservists who were out of shape and walking long distances in new boots from the stores.

Then there was Belgian resistance,monor but spirited and the home guard joining in so the advance falls further behind and to speed it up junior officers decide to take reprisal actions against Belgian civilians to break the military and militias will, that creates a propaganda catastrophe that brings in Britain with a small but intensely professional force that shot the German mass formations of part-timers to pieces until both sides were exhausted and trench war started.

ie the first world war was largely lost because paper planners hadn't thought of blisters.

There's a little more to it than that but I suppose you could argue that point didn't help. I thought the attack on France was indeed to be done quickly and decisively but they also had an "agreement" with the Russians at the time.

[Nemowork]

Your thinking of the WW2 Nazi/Soviet non-aggression pact, in WW1 the death of Fran-Joseph in Sarajevo activated the Austro-Hungarians that activated the Russian mobilisation that activated the German mobilisation and so on. In 1914 Russia was the prime enemy of Germany before even France.

Being outnumbered the Germans plan was to sacrifice territory in the east to a Russian advance while their armies massed in the west and destroyed the French before they moved east on the advanced rail system and fought the Russians.

Unfortunately their surprise advance through Belgium bogged down for the reasons mentioned above which brought inthe British Empire to aid the French. Being stalled in the west the Germans abandonned their planing and moved their strength east to destroy the Russians in the battle of Tannenburg.

That meant they couldnt defeat Russian numbers in the east or break the allied lines in the west and had to resort to a defensive war, slowly starving away as their high command broke up into factionalism while the western allies improved.

[Mugzy]

Yeah I thought about that later in the day and wondered if I missed the fact that you were talking about WWI.

Again, the sad reality is that Canada played a major role in this war too, especially in the Vimy Ridge and Paschendale campaings.

[DarkWasp]

My own piece of WWII history. This is my 1942 Lee Enfield No.4 Mk.1* Longbranch.
Fully functioning and great fun at the range. Has a 1300 yard peep sight that was used to fire volleys into the enemies trenches to keep there heads down.

[Nemowork]

Beo is going to start whimpering if he see's that!

And probably emigrate 20 minutes later




Honest, i didnt write the caption on that one