Venezuela's Chavez Seeks Major Changes With Vote

AnthemZ · 12-02-2007, 02:33 PM

Venezuela's Chavez Seeks Major Changes With Vote
Sunday , December 02, 2007

CARACAS, Venezuela —

President Hugo Chavez faces his stiffest challenge in years Sunday as voters decide whether to approve constitutional changes that would greatly expand his powers and let him seek re-election for decades to come.

An emboldened opposition and recent violent clashes in street protests point to a potentially volatile dispute if the vote is close.

Chavez has warned opponents he will not tolerate attempts to stir up violence, and threatened to cut off oil exports to the U.S. if Washington interferes. The South American country is a major supplier to the United States — the No. 1 buyer of Venezuelan oil.

"In the case of an aggression by the United States government, we wouldn't send any more oil to that country," Chavez told reporters Saturday. "Forget about our oil."

Chavez, who has become Latin America's most outspoken antagonist of Washington since he was first elected in 1998, calls the constitutional overhaul vital to making Venezuela a socialist state. He labels those who resist it pawns of President Bush.

"Anyone who votes 'No' is voting for George W. Bush," Chavez shouted to a sea of supporters Friday. "Our true enemy is the U.S. empire, and on Sunday, Dec. 2, we're going to give another knockout to Bush."

While the Venezuelan government touts polls showing Chavez ahead, other surveys cited by the opposition indicate strong resistance — which would be a change for a leader who easily won re-election last year with 63 percent of the vote.

Pollster Luis Vicente Leon said tracking polls by his firm Datanalisis in the past week show the vote is too close to predict. Which side wins will depend largely on turnout among Chavez's supporters and opponents, he said.

"If he wins by a very small margin, that's a scenario filled with conflict," Leon said. "In a country where there are high levels of mistrust between the camps, it's obvious the opposition ... would think it was fraud."

Chavez has sought to capitalize on his personal popularity ahead of the vote. He is seen by many supporters as a champion of the poor who has redistributed more oil wealth than any other leader in memory.

Opponents — including Roman Catholic leaders, press freedom groups, human rights groups and prominent business leaders — fear the reforms would grant Chavez unchecked power and threaten basic rights.

The changes would extend presidential terms from six to seven years, create new forms of communal property, and let Chavez seek re-election in 2012 and beyond.

They would also grant Chavez direct control over the Central Bank, allow his government to detain citizens without charge during a state of emergency, and empower the president to redraw the country's political map and handpick provincial and municipal leaders.

Many Chavez supporters say Chavez needs more time in office to consolidate his unique brand of "21st century socialism," and they praise other proposed changes such as shortening the workday from eight hours to six, creating a social security fund for millions of informal laborers and promoting communal councils where residents decide how to spend government funds.

Tensions have risen in recent weeks as university students have led protests and at times clashed with police and Chavista groups. One man was shot dead Monday while trying to get through a road blocked by protesters.

In Washington, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said the United States hopes the referendum will be "a free and fair contest."

The Venezuelan Embassy in Washington protested McCormack's remarks, saying they "are aimed at generating doubts" ahead of the vote.

The embassy said it wanted to "alert the international community about actions that some undemocratic sectors could undertake by failing to concede the final results of the referendum."

Chavez accused his opponents of plotting to discredit what he says will be a legitimate and clear victory for him at the polls.

The opposition has called for close monitoring of an outcome they predict will be close.

Opposition leader Manuel Rosales, the governor of Zulia state, recalled before a crowd of supporters Friday night that he conceded defeat in the 2006 presidential race — and urged Chavez to do the same and "recognize the will of the people."

Some 140,000 soldiers and reservists were to be posted during the vote, the Defense Ministry said.

About 100 electoral observers from 39 countries in Latin America, Europe and the United States will be on hand, plus hundreds of Venezuelan observers, according to the National Electoral Council.

Yet, absent this time are the Organization of American States and the European Union, which have monitored past votes.

Chavez, 53, says he will stay in power only as long as Venezuelans keep re-electing him — and adds that might be for life.

"If God gives me life and help," Chavez told supporters Friday, "I will be at the head of the government until 2050!" — when he would be 95 years old.

Gautier84 · 12-02-2007, 03:23 PM

I hope Hugo Chavez won't win the elections but unfortunately he's likely to win

TheLancinator · 12-02-2007, 03:31 PM

No matter how the real vote turns out, you know he will 'win'...140,000 troops called out for the elections? WTF do you need that for...he's sooooo popular after all

Gautier84 · 12-02-2007, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thelancinatorZ

No matter how the real vote turns out, you know he will 'win'...140,000 troops called out for the elections? WTF do you need that for...he's sooooo popular after all

yeah unfortunately, he's popular, he talks too much but is he really considered as a threat for the US security?

**Nemowork** · 12-02-2007, 04:07 PM

The problem is he is popular, by giving away the oil money to the poor he guarantees a mass vote the others really cant match!

The point is that he's asking the people to change the rules of the game, fro making him a popular if outspoken President to President for life and that might lose him the democratic supporters and the moderates,

From what ive heard the vote is tied at the moment!

Gautier84 · 12-02-2007, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemowork

The problem is he is popular, by giving away the oil money to the poor he guarantees a mass vote the others really cant match!

The point is that he's asking the people to change the rules of the game, fro making him a popular if outspoken President to President for life and that might lose him the democratic supporters and the moderates,

From what ive heard the vote is tied at the moment!

yes, very tight ,but Chavez declared that if he lost the elections, he would stop oil transfers to the US and the US import from Venezuela like 10% of its oil!

**Nemowork** · 12-02-2007, 04:18 PM

so that would affect the US, how woulfd that affect internal politics, loss of oil sales to the US wuld result in lowered income and loss of cash for his supporters?

Isaak Hayes · 12-02-2007, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thelancinatorZ

No matter how the real vote turns out, you know he will 'win'...140,000 troops called out for the elections? WTF do you need that for...he's sooooo popular after all

you need troops when a foreign government and its paid agents in your country are actively attempting to destablise it . Chavez popular reforms are clearly threatening the interests of very wealthy and powerful sectors of venezuelan society and foreign interests also . Therefore given the illegal and violent nature of their repeated attempts to destablise venezula the democratic process has to be defended .

Putting inverted commas around the word win cannot remotely contradict the fact that the man has soundly thrashed the opposition in every election so far , that his popularity has gone up in every election while the oppositions plummeted and that he and his policies are extremely popular with the majority of Venezuelas citizenry . Thats why they elect him as their leader and will most likely continue to do so as long as he remains alive . Thats why the rich and the powerful are puling out all the stops to prevent a yes vote .

I would be very surprised indeed if the people of venezuela decided not to back these radical democratic reforms , chavez has signalled these reforms as necessary for quite some time and during that period his popularity has continued to grow .

Isaak Hayes · 12-02-2007, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemowork

The problem is he is popular, by giving away the oil money to the poor he guarantees a mass vote the others really cant match!

The point is that he's asking the people to change the rules of the game, fro making him a popular if outspoken President to President for life and that might lose him the democratic supporters and the moderates,

From what ive heard the vote is tied at the moment!

He can only be president for life if the people continue to re-elect him at successive elections. The system he is proposing is no different to Britains and many other western european countries . In fact Britians hereditary head of state is an unelected inbred monarch .

As regards giving away the oil money to poor people , his point is that the oil wealth of the nation is the property of the people of the nation . Not the private property of a native elite . There should be no poverty in venezuela at all given its vast oil resources . Chavez reforms mean that local communites will draft their own budgets and have those anti poverty projects financed directly from the nations resources rather than begging for handouts . Hes putting power directly in the hands of the people themselves . This of course has pissed off the rich as well as the middle class who will lose a lot of power and status . Power to the people tends to do that .

TheLancinator · 12-02-2007, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gautier84

yes, very tight ,but Chavez declared that if he lost the elections, he would stop oil transfers to the US and the US import from Venezuela like 10% of its oil!

He is threatening to stop the oil shipments if an alleged CIA plot goes into effect next week...funny how he's the only one that knows about this alleged CIA plot...nothing like trying to scare the voters

Isaak Hayes · 12-02-2007, 10:20 PM

If the CIA are not engaged in yet another attempt to overthrow a leftist latin american government one would really have to question why the american governemnt pay their wages . Thats what the CIA is for in the first place , its their job .

Prof Maxwell · 12-02-2007, 10:36 PM

It's hard to believe that the Venezuelan people have been so easily duped by this would be dictator.

This is just his ltest step towards securing absolute power in his country, and so far, the people, with a few exceptions, seem to endorse him?

I guess those folks don't have many world history books available.

Perhaps it's time for Sean Penn to go visit him again, then we could send in one of our new hypersonic cruise missiles, and pop two birds with one stone.

symondo · 12-02-2007, 10:52 PM

QUOTE "He can only be president for life if the people continue to re-elect him at successive elections. The system he is proposing is no different to Britains and many other western european countries . In fact Britians hereditary head of state is an unelected inbred monarch" .
What he is proposing is NOTHING LIKE IN THE UK get your facts right! our queen has no real power to control anything! I hope he is truthful in what he says but these sweeping powers mean we may have another megalomaniac that enjoys his power a leetle too much and won't let go even if the people want it!

Isaak Hayes · 12-03-2007, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by symondo

QUOTE "He can only be president for life if the people continue to re-elect him at successive elections. The system he is proposing is no different to Britains and many other western european countries . In fact Britians hereditary head of state is an unelected inbred monarch" .
What he is proposing is NOTHING LIKE IN THE UK get your facts right! our queen has no real power to control anything! I hope he is truthful in what he says but these sweeping powers mean we may have another megalomaniac that enjoys his power a leetle too much and won't let go even if the people want it!

learn to read . your prime minister can stand for re-election as many times as he wants , like in most european countries. Yet your condemning venezuelans for implementing the same measures in their constitution . And unlike your monarchic state the people of venezuela actually have a written constitution . They dont need some collection of ass fixated lords who spend most of their time being whipped in a whores dungeon and engaging in auto erotic asphyxiation , running about in wigs and stupid coats to determine what their constitutional rights actually entail . They can read their own constitution as its articles are printed on everyday foodstuffs .And part of the consitution , implemented by chavez includes the right of recall . The people can even get rid of their leader mid term if they so desire .

Isaak Hayes · 12-03-2007, 05:27 AM

[quote=prof_maxwell;3603721]

Quote:

It's hard to believe that the Venezuelan people have been so easily duped by this would be dictator.

its called democracy , get used to it . Hes not a would be anything , hes an overwhelmingly popular elected leader . He may not even win the referendum .

Quote:

This is just his ltest step towards securing absolute power in his country, and so far, the people, with a few exceptions, seem to endorse him?

. you obviously havent even read the articles of their constitution your complaining about

Quote:

I guess those folks don't have many world history books available.

I believe they are well aware of what world history entails , particularly chile in 1973 .

Quote:

Perhaps it's time for Sean Penn to go visit him again, then we could send in one of our new hypersonic cruise missiles, and pop two birds with one stone

it may well happen

12-02-2007, 02:33 PM	#1
AnthemZ ¯\(°_o)/¯ Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 10,145 Thanks: 9 Thanked 78 Times in 45 Posts	Venezuela's Chavez Seeks Major Changes With Vote Venezuela's Chavez Seeks Major Changes With Vote Sunday , December 02, 2007 CARACAS, Venezuela — President Hugo Chavez faces his stiffest challenge in years Sunday as voters decide whether to approve constitutional changes that would greatly expand his powers and let him seek re-election for decades to come. An emboldened opposition and recent violent clashes in street protests point to a potentially volatile dispute if the vote is close. Chavez has warned opponents he will not tolerate attempts to stir up violence, and threatened to cut off oil exports to the U.S. if Washington interferes. The South American country is a major supplier to the United States — the No. 1 buyer of Venezuelan oil. "In the case of an aggression by the United States government, we wouldn't send any more oil to that country," Chavez told reporters Saturday. "Forget about our oil." Chavez, who has become Latin America's most outspoken antagonist of Washington since he was first elected in 1998, calls the constitutional overhaul vital to making Venezuela a socialist state. He labels those who resist it pawns of President Bush. "Anyone who votes 'No' is voting for George W. Bush," Chavez shouted to a sea of supporters Friday. "Our true enemy is the U.S. empire, and on Sunday, Dec. 2, we're going to give another knockout to Bush." While the Venezuelan government touts polls showing Chavez ahead, other surveys cited by the opposition indicate strong resistance — which would be a change for a leader who easily won re-election last year with 63 percent of the vote. Pollster Luis Vicente Leon said tracking polls by his firm Datanalisis in the past week show the vote is too close to predict. Which side wins will depend largely on turnout among Chavez's supporters and opponents, he said. "If he wins by a very small margin, that's a scenario filled with conflict," Leon said. "In a country where there are high levels of mistrust between the camps, it's obvious the opposition ... would think it was fraud." Chavez has sought to capitalize on his personal popularity ahead of the vote. He is seen by many supporters as a champion of the poor who has redistributed more oil wealth than any other leader in memory. Opponents — including Roman Catholic leaders, press freedom groups, human rights groups and prominent business leaders — fear the reforms would grant Chavez unchecked power and threaten basic rights. The changes would extend presidential terms from six to seven years, create new forms of communal property, and let Chavez seek re-election in 2012 and beyond. They would also grant Chavez direct control over the Central Bank, allow his government to detain citizens without charge during a state of emergency, and empower the president to redraw the country's political map and handpick provincial and municipal leaders. Many Chavez supporters say Chavez needs more time in office to consolidate his unique brand of "21st century socialism," and they praise other proposed changes such as shortening the workday from eight hours to six, creating a social security fund for millions of informal laborers and promoting communal councils where residents decide how to spend government funds. Tensions have risen in recent weeks as university students have led protests and at times clashed with police and Chavista groups. One man was shot dead Monday while trying to get through a road blocked by protesters. In Washington, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said the United States hopes the referendum will be "a free and fair contest." The Venezuelan Embassy in Washington protested McCormack's remarks, saying they "are aimed at generating doubts" ahead of the vote. The embassy said it wanted to "alert the international community about actions that some undemocratic sectors could undertake by failing to concede the final results of the referendum." Chavez accused his opponents of plotting to discredit what he says will be a legitimate and clear victory for him at the polls. The opposition has called for close monitoring of an outcome they predict will be close. Opposition leader Manuel Rosales, the governor of Zulia state, recalled before a crowd of supporters Friday night that he conceded defeat in the 2006 presidential race — and urged Chavez to do the same and "recognize the will of the people." Some 140,000 soldiers and reservists were to be posted during the vote, the Defense Ministry said. About 100 electoral observers from 39 countries in Latin America, Europe and the United States will be on hand, plus hundreds of Venezuelan observers, according to the National Electoral Council. Yet, absent this time are the Organization of American States and the European Union, which have monitored past votes. Chavez, 53, says he will stay in power only as long as Venezuelans keep re-electing him — and adds that might be for life. "If God gives me life and help," Chavez told supporters Friday, "I will be at the head of the government until 2050!" — when he would be 95 years old. __________________ Sig by Teabelly

12-02-2007, 04:07 PM	#5
Nemowork Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mobilis in Mobilii Posts: 31,171 Thanks: 7 Thanked 32 Times in 15 Posts	The problem is he is popular, by giving away the oil money to the poor he guarantees a mass vote the others really cant match! The point is that he's asking the people to change the rules of the game, fro making him a popular if outspoken President to President for life and that might lose him the democratic supporters and the moderates, From what ive heard the vote is tied at the moment! __________________

12-02-2007, 04:18 PM	#7
Nemowork Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mobilis in Mobilii Posts: 31,171 Thanks: 7 Thanked 32 Times in 15 Posts	so that would affect the US, how woulfd that affect internal politics, loss of oil sales to the US wuld result in lowered income and loss of cash for his supporters? __________________

12-02-2007, 10:52 PM	#13
symondo Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Good Ole Blighty!! Posts: 425 Thanks: 17 Thanked 23 Times in 10 Posts	QUOTE "He can only be president for life if the people continue to re-elect him at successive elections. The system he is proposing is no different to Britains and many other western european countries . In fact Britians hereditary head of state is an unelected inbred monarch" . What he is proposing is NOTHING LIKE IN THE UK get your facts right! our queen has no real power to control anything! I hope he is truthful in what he says but these sweeping powers mean we may have another megalomaniac that enjoys his power a leetle too much and won't let go even if the people want it! __________________

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12-02-2007, 03:23 PM	#2
Gautier84 in Ireland Join Date: May 2007 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 3,857 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I hope Hugo Chavez won't win the elections but unfortunately he's likely to win

12-02-2007, 10:20 PM	#11
Isaak Hayes Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 265 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	If the CIA are not engaged in yet another attempt to overthrow a leftist latin american government one would really have to question why the american governemnt pay their wages . Thats what the CIA is for in the first place , its their job .

12-02-2007, 10:36 PM	#12
Prof Maxwell Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA Posts: 6,350 Thanks: 0 Thanked 137 Times in 52 Posts	It's hard to believe that the Venezuelan people have been so easily duped by this would be dictator. This is just his ltest step towards securing absolute power in his country, and so far, the people, with a few exceptions, seem to endorse him? I guess those folks don't have many world history books available. Perhaps it's time for Sean Penn to go visit him again, then we could send in one of our new hypersonic cruise missiles, and pop two birds with one stone.